Why We Never Slipped Down The Slippery Slope: A Girl's Love PerspectiveHello, I am new to FSTube and the MAP community but I have been trying to study the resources and perspectives available here and on Newgon and other sites. I would describe myself as a hebephilic/pedohebephilic girllover, for a long time, I suppressed these feelings knowing that even dating a 16 year old as an adult man is social suicide even in states where its legal, recently I "cracked" to borrow a phrase from the Trans community and I was no longer able to pretend I didn't feel this way or that it was shameful for me to feel this way. Going through Newgon and other sites it appears to me that low AA homosexual men are disproportionately represented and have been some of the most active in both activism and theory-writing for the MAP movement. Even several antis have made off-hand remarks that the MAP rights movements of the 70s came very close to succeeding; this presents us with a curious question: how did we go from Obama not supporting gay marriage in 2010 to transkids being the hot topic issue of the hour? Yet, how is it that we never slipped down the "slippery slope" that conservatives warn of? I mean no offense to any transrights supporters but I think the average American in 1980 would have felt much more sympathy in the ideal platonic towards a hebephilic heterosexual MAP/AAM relationship then they would have towards the idea of transkids. Many modern Liberals celebrate transkids yet are horrified by the prospect of a MAP relationship never even daring to consider that it may also be possible that the transkids might find it easier in many cases to find an accepting adult lover then among their peer group; a child, in short, may determine their own gender with a valid medical diagnosis but cannot determine to date outside a very narrow age range below 18. I have come to believe that the answer to this question lies in society's view of young CIS-girls
Innate Capacity for Reproduction
Teen girls are capable of biological reproduction. And, in fact, the line does not stop at teens, something the MAP/scientific community has known for years but has recently caused a small scale moral panic among normies is that girls are hitting menarche at earlier and earlier ages. The youngest girl to have given birth in recorded history was a five year old Peruvian girl. It does not appear that statistics on pre-teen births are freely tabulated and available in Western countries but South Africa reported 600 births to girls in the cohort of 9-10 years old. Suffice it to say that it is the frequency of sex and social stigma/medical concern about birth that in this age group that is keeping potential births in the cohort below 11 artificially low. How is it plausible that sexual relations between adults and pre-teen girls will be allowed when a birth to a girl between 12-18 is considered a life shattering event that puts "her future" at risk? If both liberals and conservatives are moral panicking about teen pregnancy and many MAP activists are not responding to this concern bc their primary concern is adult-boy relationships or they think it doesn't matter bc they have a low AA then it becomes more understandable why we haven't made progress. Furthermore, given that conservatives have long been moral panicking about single-motherhood this also becomes more intelligible. Many heterosexual MAPs may not feel this way but like with any relationship among young people who are still finding themselves there is a fair chance that for instance if a girl's first relationship is with a non-exclusive MAP it likely won't be her last. This doesn't make it wrong or younger girls untrustworthy this is also often the case in adult-adult relationships. What we can expect from this is an increase in single motherhood among teens, especially as, in my experience from MS-HS, many girls are interested in the idea of motherhood before boys are interested in the idea of fatherhood.
From what I've seen it does not seem to be an exaggeration to say that much of MAP theory is another type of Queer theory. Queer theory being defined as a concern with non-normative non-reproductive sex. In this case, it is very much the problem of reproduction that is at stake here. It also shouldn't have to be said but it really must be that abortion must be legal, free, and accessible in every state for young girls to freely chose their destiny. I'm not a doctor but doesn't seem to be practical or fair to put pre-teens on birth control tablets/IUDs and the fact is that there will be cases where a girl was having sex on the cusp of her menarche and her/her partner did not know that she had had it and it may be the case that she will get pregnant after having her first ovulation. This is not compatible with the conservative social agenda as it has evolved since 1980.
Fear of Female Sexuality Among Conservatives
Based on my observations of the online Right it is my view that this population is deeply misogynistic and is distrustful of female sexuality. In fact, most explicitly political conservative interest in MAP issues today stems solely from the desire to "get em while they're young" i.e. to indoctrinate young girls into their way of life before they can be "brainwashed" "ruined" and "run through" in the wider mainstream and more culturally liberal society. Those conservatives do not see young girls as potential free agents but rather they merely invert the current liberal idea that because children are naive, trusting and easily manipulated by adults but find this to be a good thing because it means they will not be rejected these girls -- so long as they can get a ring on their finger and the coercive legal and social apparatus that comes with that. This is also another reason why despite hebephilic heterosexuality being the most widely shared MAP orientation there is no progress being made. Sure, MAP relations with young girls was legally permitted in feudal "trad" societies and even in 19th century America/Europe but these societies almost always cushioned the discomfort of allowing this by putting prohibitions on or outright criminalizing non-marital heterosexual sex. As explicit prohibitions on non-marital non-SW heterosexual sex are never coming back unless the Right can successfully institute a fascist state this means that younger girls will be involved in casual relationships/hookups with men in their 30s and older. It is another front in the Right's war on hookup culture and non-marital relationships that the it feels it cannot afford to lose. If young girls get socialized into modern sexual culture at an early age then they might not choose sex with conservative men who do not prioritize their sexual pleasure or do not support their right to choose their own destiny in regard to pregnancy. A word of caution to any conservative MAPs: its only going to get worse! Currently, 30% of Republicans or more believe the Democratic Party is the "pedophile party" -- the leadership is not going to let this go. Not only does it mobilize a demoralized and shrinking base but it is one of the few issues that cultural conservatives have that they can find wide rapport with among the population Essentially, 70-80% of the public or more is intensely MAPphobic but 70-80% of the public is *not* conservative. This is one of the few carrots they can dangle out to win noncommittal conservatives (many "moderates") actual moderates and liberals/leftists to vote for or provide some nominal/token support for their agenda.
Gay And Trans Sexualities were never LEGALLY defined as Rape
If gay sex between adults had been defined as rape then I think it is possible that Stonewall would only be happening now or maybe wouldn't have happened at all. Gay sex between adults has only ever been defined as a moral crime and medicalized after the fact. Gay men could talk to their therapists about their orientation -- something that many MAPs cannot even do and the result of this was obviously mixed but at least it provided an outlet where they could work out their ideas in a private setting. The biggest issue that I see with getting a MAP message out is that the stock response to it is "thats rape." Many platforms do not allow MAPactivism on the grounds that we are encouraging sex crimes and this can only be maintained with the pretext that statutory rape is legally defined rape. The #MeToo movement was an example of modern sex panic among adults and it underlined just how murky the issue of consent can be after the fact; in an era where adults often feel uncomfortable with the issue of consent among adults it is a hard sell to to agitate around an issue that is LEGALLY rape. The existence of the concept of statutory rape does allude to the importance of young girls in this issue, so much of traditional literature involves young girls who were seduced and who were spurned later on, this portrait is often drawn in rape like tones. Sure, force was not used but the public is broadly amenable to the idea that young girls are pure beings that are easily mislead and manipulated. Nazi propaganda against Jews did not always allege that Jews were literal child/teen rapists but rather often maintained they unfairly and deceitfully seduced young German girls into relationships and this was *de facto* the same thing. These images can be very powerful. In Goethe's [I]Faust[/I] Gretchen's young adult brother attacks and is killed by Faust when he learns of his seduction of Gretchen; Gretchen was 14, the same age as Germany's functional age of consent today. As far as I know, the only successful action on bringing *down* the age of consent in US history occurred when anti-rape feminists briefly succeeded in getting the age of consent lowered to 13 in 1979. This is the path to success, we cannot undo all the images the public has about exploitative creepy men manipulating teens and girls overnight but we *can* emphasize that the concept of statutory rape does real injustice to actual victims. That the refusal to educate girls about sex results in them being taken advantage of and by emphasizing education we can also alleviate some of the concerns around intergenerational relationships. Heterosexual MAPs must become more active, this is difficult bc the magic age line serves as the final taboo in an America tired of sexu al change. Unfortunately, our movement cannot piggyback on LGBT as the failure of the past 40 years illustrate but we can make allies and use that movement as a point of reference. Hebephilic gays benefit from people not caring about what older boy teens do (by this age most parents seem to just want them gone) and pedophilic gays paradoxically benefitted from their orientation being so stigmatized before the 90s that one more added taboo didn't matter. Currently, a man having sex with a girl who is 17 years and 364 days old draws the same rebuke as a man having sex with a 7 year old they are both equally "pedophiles" in the eyes of the public. With even legal age-gap heterosexual relationships being problematized in general on the internet many men will be drawn into our spheres when they realize that no matter what you do you will never not be a """"pedo""""
Weak Incentive For the Left To Take Up Our Cause
The Left are the change-makers, for good or for ill. Even when conservatives and conservative-libertarians (aka libertarians in the American sense) take up the cause they never advance it because it involves changing things and in general this is a progressive movement of child liberation, and conservatism has been built on reacting to every new demand for rights since then. We should be key to tie this to leftist demands, e.g. a bigger welfare state "the reproductive choice of young girls to become mothers requires that society provide more material and educational resources as girl's pursue motherhood, young mothers should not be discriminated against in school or the workplace." The Queer kids cause is worth lending support to but it is worth noting as I said earlier that I believe current queer theory is inadequate we must have our own theories. We must talk about sexual liberation of minors and MAPs as a positive progressive change that will make society better and more equal for everyone. We must point out how reactionaries always use the demagoguery against MAPs to justify their latest anti-gay/abortion/birth control/trans bill. Point out, as Reich did, that fascism always uses the specter of child sexuality and adult-child sex to push its cause. Of course, the point of this is not to divide the community, though I must admit that beyond my self-interest, my leftist values are part of what brought me to the MAP cause, but to get moderates and conservatives to accept MAPs we must change how liberals and the Left talk about us. Moderates and conservatives never really create a forward-thinking positive change and if they do its because they are reacting to alternatives being offered by the Left e.g. Nixon passed the EPA, Affirmative Action, laid the groundwork for ending the Vietnam War and flirted with universal healthcare because Leftists were talking about communism and liberals, fresh off the success of the Great Society but weary of revolutionary groups like the Weather Underground were talking about welfare/pro-labor/CR proposals that were far bigger than what Nixon would proposed.
For those MAPS uninterested in politics or moderate/conservative you have to be aware that you will only be accepted when the Left takes up your cause. Today, saying the word "f-ggot" can get you kicked out of a bar in a big city in the big South -- that probably wouldn't be true even in 1980. If you want to live in a world where MAPs will be accepted or tolerated even in a small red state or city then we need to change how liberals and leftists see us.
Part of doing that is to find and publicize teen and young girl supporters and to find adult former minor female lovers with a positive experience. Its easy to tie what we're doing into the umbrella of ageism, which can easily be just another cause in the Left's intersectionalist arsenal. But, believe me, the Left will go wherever the women are going. It's not important to change the minds of 50 years on Facebook or 30 year olds on Twitter. But it is *essential* to change the minds of young girls, who disproportionately make up leftist activism and are disproportionately influential on the Right. Part of why 80s PoMo theory is just in the air of everything right now is because young girls could easily and digestibly read about it on Tumblr and relate it to their lives. Now, consider the pomo influenced screeds and takes that you see on emanating from Tik Tok, love it, hate it, neutral, what was once a very fringe obscure academic theories often involving rather fringe causes has inundated the cultural mainstream, largely because of the influence of young women. Its not important to win 60 year olds that only have a seventh grade education who will check the (R) box for the latest Republican politician promising to persecute us -- that will get worse before it gets better. But we cannot win without young female advocates and we must retain these advocates even when they become older than 18, the cultural inertia is heavily slanted the other way, girls often become involved with an older man, then when its discovered they are subjected to intense social stigma and told their experiences were rape regardless of how they felt about it then. It is very easy for someone to turn 18 and decide they don't associate with MAPs anymore, they were used by the movement, and have their testimony repeated endlessly in the media. We can't totally avoid this but we can lessen it by tying it to the desire of young women for sexual autonomy and happiness in general.
The influence of sex work on peoples minds is outsized. Many people live in states where the AOC is 16 but think you can't touch a 16 year old or shouldn't because you need to be 18 to do porn, strip, or have an OnlyFans.The fact that sex work industries commodify something that people find to be sacred both in a religious and non-religious sense adds to the discomfort here. The push to increasingly legalize a wide variety of sex work likely can't be stopped, it has existed in every class society and would possibly exist even in a hypothetical communist one.A two-prong strategy is worth pursing, both destigmatizing sex work and telling both anti-sex work moderates, conservatives, and leftists that they should take it up with the system if they have a problem. Moving too fast on destigmatizing minor sex work, by and large involving young girls, should be carefully considered. These industries make the best case there is for "consent that isn't consent" concerning young women because someone involved may just be doing it to feed themselves; that makes a clear case for the continued existence of statutory rape as concept among post-pubescents and near pubescents. However, I expect some of our biggest supporters will be teen sex workers, as many of the biggest supporters of the early gay movement were teen sex workers, who also called for abolishing the age of consent. By and large it is adults who have money and hebephiles/heteropedes are the largest populations of MAPs. This is a careful balancing line, because this issue makes even fairly progressive and sexually open-minded people uncomfortable. Yet, I would say when in doubt, support the SW girls if you have to; tell people who don't like it to change the system so girls don't have to get involved in such work. Arguably, its a bad faith argument considering how many young women are active in producing self-made pornography on onlyfans, yet successful movements often move forward with bad faith arguments that make in-roads with resistant portions of the population.
Published on 23 May 2022.
Published on 23 May 2022.
MAP, AAM, Hebes, GirlLove
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